The voice of the moderates

I have been watching the CNN special “God’s Warriors" – it got me to thinking about how many people there are in the world NOT engaged in violence and enmeshed in “holy wars,” but are actually working to make things better.

Extremists make a lot of noise and carry out their initiatives with a kind of unmatched zeal, dedication, and persistence.  They make so much noise, in fact, that they very easily drown out the voices of those calling for tolerance, moderation, nonviolence, and pragmatic steps toward a less conflict-driven and conflict-ridden world.

OneVoice is now nearly 500,000-strong in Israel and Palestine – nearly a half million citizens, in roughly equal numbers on both sides, who want to see an end to the conflict and are willing to make compromises to see it happen; nearly a half million people who have had enough of all the violence and bloodshed.  Yet we never hear about these people, and we rarely talk about these people.

On October 18, OneVoice is aiming to change that – moderate voices will take center stage as Israelis and Palestinians call on the leadership to sit down and negotiate a two-state solution. They need our help – all of us – to realize the vision of a future not dictated by violence, dogma, and extremism.

Visit www.OneMillionVoices.org -- sign the OneVoice Mandate calling on the leadership to heed the will of their peoples, and pledge to be there with us.

We encourage people to comment on our posts. Please be advised that all comments must be on topic. Any hateful, inciting, or derogatory language will not be tolerated and will be removed from the conversation chain.

Comments

[Elisheva]

I cannot imagine why you think that "the voice" of "The People" is expressed in the show G-d's warriors, nor in your own programs.
You are all part of Ford Foundation, and what you do is seize the political voice of others, silence them, and force onto people things alien and hateful to them.
You are the pro-fascism, anti-democracy movement. If you were really grassroots, you wouldn't be doing this site and all the top down outside agitation at universities.
Right now you are promoting stealing Israel from the Jewish people.

No matter how many puppets you install, however many Peres and Netanyahu's, nothing will change. G-d gave Israel to the Jewish people and you who steal are the "extremists".
We are the same as we have been for 3000 + years.
And by the way, there is no such thing as the "palestinian people". That is a fiction cooked up to compete with the real thing, The Jews, the real promoters of freedom and democracy world wide and throughout the centuries.

[Elisheva]

So much for voices being heard by One Shmon.
Last night I posted the following comment on their blag, and gee, how amazing, it is gone now!
Seems that only politically correct views, which they mean is the same as theirs, - deserve to be heard!
And this is why "one voice" of mere mortals is so frightening!
To One non-voice: Why do you hate us Jews and G-d so much?
In Faith, Elisheva

[Sefi Kedmi]

Dear Elisheva,

Being both Israeli and Jewish I understand where you are coming from, and that you have great belief in our religion and rights.

On the other hand, the reality we are living through here in Israel is different from what you portray. Most people here, and on the opposite side, have already come to terms with the reality, we had enough wars and bloodshed.

This has nothing to do with questioning either the Jewish or the Muslim faith, and is a direct result of the local people's will and wish to live a secure and independent life, just as you or anybody else in the world deserves.

The legitimate position you are representing has been tested in the Israeli public and has not gained any noticeable support of the public.

You are more then welcome to find me at {xxxxxx} if you wish to know more about what is going on, and why i support OneVoice.

[Elisheva]

..................
Greetings:
First, thank you for putting back my posting, and that someone would actually respond.
Second, I hope that you don't mind my using your email address instead of mine, as mine is now being rejected as "invalid".

That said, the response does not address the issues.
.....
Start here - how far would you have gotten in your program were it not for financial support from huge international corporations, such as Ford Foundation?
You do not speak for the individual.
........
1. It was stated:
"...we had enough wars and bloodshed..."
.................
This statement gives the impression that the two "sides" are in any way equivalent.
This is false. The wars and bloodshed are from the Arab side, not the Jews.
To stop the bloodshed and wars, the ARabs should have learned in 1967 to leave the Jewish people in peace. They failed to do so.
In 1967, The Arabs, once more, attacked the Jews. The Arabs lost the war.
So they have no reason at all to complain.
Anything which non-Jews have obtained from Israel, or in Israel, has been by the generosity and kindness of the Jewish People. So where is the Arab and world appreciation for the decades of free health care, free education, clean water, good utilities, and jobs, all from the Jewish people? Do they think that we owe it to them, who throughout history have slaughtered and displaced us?
In fact, it has only been the larger Jewish return to our land which has made Israel habitable. It was Jews who died cleaning up the swamps [read the history of Moshe Feiglin's family, and see how many of his family died doing this work], and putting in the first roads.
It was Jewish blood, sweat and tears which has made Israel beautiful and modern.
In fact, a large proportion of Arabs who lived in Israel over the entire 20th Century, literally owe their lives to the Jewish People. It is we who elevated their health, and lowered their infant mortality rates. We have been carrying them on our backs for centuries.
We have - and continue to treat Arabs better then any Arab nation does.
And in response, what do they do?
Terrorize and kill us.
Steal our land.
Destroy our civil rights and liberties.
No, there will be peace in our land when the oppressors - the Arabs and the Vatican -are caused to stop oppressing and stealing from the Jewish people.
At this time, there is no tational basis or any reason to believe that any deal will be held to by the other side, which has openly and viciously violated every other agreement, while we Jews continue to abide by the terms and conditions.
Go and visit Yosef's tomb, burnt down in glee by those who have benefitted by us, if you care to argue.
--------
2. You claim that your position is:
...............
a direct result of the local people's will and wish to live a secure and independent life, just as you or anybody else in the world deserves.
.......
A. You have no proof whatsoever that you actually do represent "the people's will".
You do not speak for any large number of people anywhere. Your own data is the proof.
So stop stealing the People's Voice with your false claims.
............
B. Of course everyone wants to live in Peace. But your proposal does not promise nor guarantee it.
Your words are just like the Geneva Accords propaganda surveys, which has unethical forced choices; and then the erroneous answers were promoted as truth.
Put your alleged proofs up on line. Put up the data. Put up your sampling techniques.
Put up the exact questions.
The implementation of the anti-Judaism and anti-democracy Geneva Accords resulted in a huge pogrom on Gush Katif. 10,000 Jews, who had provided jobs for many Arabs and other non-Jews; were brutally dragged out of their homes which they had painstakingly built out of desert. They have never been compensated, and many are still homeless.
Why should Jews have to leave our homes so that terrorists can turn gardens into wastelands, and make good businesses into trash?
Only people who hate Jews would do this.
If you want credibility, if you want to make things fair, go and help these 10,000 martyrs regain their lives, their lands and their homes.
.........
3. You claim:
.............
The ... position you are representing has been tested in the Israeli public and has not gained any noticeable support of the public.
......
A. You use the word "noticeable" -
Whether or not you "notice" things or not is not relevant. If you control the media, The People's Voice is not heard.
Just because you hold foolish looking but empty rallies, does not make your position "noticeable", nor does it validate it.
Go ahead, use a whole colloseum, but you won't fill it up. Why? You are NOT the popular voice.
........
B. This statement is just that. It is a belief you might hold - but it is inherently false. You cannot support it. It cannot be supported.
And, on the contrary, you are also wrong in fact.
The largest demonstrations in Israel have been those which hold the same positions as I have generally set forth.
Your position is, in fact, the tiny but noisy and well financed minority.
The truth is the reverse of what you state:
The legitimate position you are representing - that Israel should allow the creation of a terrorist state, or that Arabs are the ones who have been harmed, instead of the Jews; has been tested in the Israeli public and has not gained any noticeable support of the public.
What you are doing is hateful and revolting.
.....
Take your own advice!
.....
4. You admit to being a Ford Foundation program. Thus, you have no credibility. Give up.
Ford has started up, financed and developed virtually every program or mouth piece against Israel.
That there are any Arab NGOs at all is directly due to outsiders - meaning Ford Foundation money and advisors.
If it were not for Ford's multimillions, and the US State Departments billions [in direct violation of US Congress and the will of The People in the USA], spent against Israel since 1967, no one in the world would have allowed the Tunisian Terrorists to go to Israel to cause terror and destruction.
This entire debacle, all the terrorism, the attacks on Judaism per se, etc., were artificially created, with the intent of destroying Israel and the Jewish people.
IF you care to discuss or debate, I can prove every bit of this.
.....
5. You offer:
..........
... if you wish to know more about what is going on, and why i support OneVoice ...
Sorry, thanks for the offer, but no.
I have spent much time on your websites and find that the One Voice program is anti-democratic and ugly.
..... Summary:
1. You are a pawn of Ford Foundation and other fascistic haters of Israel and the Jewish People.
2. Israel - and Jerusalem - are the rightful property of the Jewish people.
Who said so? G-d did. repeatedly in the Torah / Bible.
3. Our duty as Jews is to hold to that eternal covenant, therein showing the world the path to True Peace.
4. If that bothers you, take it up with Him, not us.
5. If you require further proof or education, I can provide it.
6. In fact, it is the Jewish people and our Torah which is the real voice of human rights and liberty for all. If you do not know this, it is because you have never studied it.
In case you want to hear it from a non-Jew, try the HirHome site for a start.
www.hirhome.com
In Faith, Elisheva

[Ami Isseroff]

Dear Elisheva,
Precisely because the Torah and Jewish ethical traditions teach about human rights, we have to be concerned about the situation of the Palestinian Arabs, regardless of the problematic (to say the least) nature of their leadership.

The strange thing in every conflict is that everyone really thinks they are right. "Our land is holy." "The other side are terrorists." "The other side committed terrible massacres. If you have read Palestinian Arab opinions you will see that they are a mirror image of your views.

Please visit http://www.mideastweb.org/dialogpage.htm where you will find some materials that might change your thinking a bit. Here is something I wrote that is there (sorry it is such a long comment!)

Our People and the Others

Ami Isseroff

Substitute "The Palestinian People" for Our People, and "The Jewish People " for "the Others," and read this aloud. Then do the same thing again, substituting "The Jewish People" for "Our People" and "The Palestinian People" for "the Others."

Our people have always had a great attachment for The Land, which is holy to us, and has been holy throughout our history. We have been fighting these many years a great struggle for justice against The Others, who began by attacking us without provocation. The Others are not a real nation, just a fiction of propagandists. The Others had no attachment to this land for dozens of generations. Now they are inventing a history to "prove" that it is their country.

The Others do not hesitate to spread all kinds of lies and exaggerations about Our People. But the fact is, that it is The Others who have acted inhumanely, murdering innocent civilians without cause and depriving our people of our rights whenever they had the chance. We have hundreds of memorials to our martyred dead, and commemorations of the massacres and atrocities committed by the enemy. These facts are certainly borne out by history, and stem from the undemocratic nature of their society and the twisted nature of their ideology. For our part, we have always treated the enemy fairly. Of course, there were exceptions to the rule, but we cannot all be held responsible for the behavior of a few extremists. If there are extremists among us, it is because the conflict has warped our people. We are becoming like our enemies.

We are a peaceful people. No people wants peace more than us. Peace is a prime tenet of our religion and we are enjoined to keep the peace by our Holy Book. But when our homes, our women and our children are threatened by the greedy and bloodthirsty acts of The Others, we must defend ourselves and fight for justice. How can we possibly make peace with people who want to destroy us and take our land? Personally, my family has suffered greatly at the hands of the enemy. Before I could make peace, I would have to think of the sacrifices made by my brother and uncle, killed in an unjustifiable action of the enemy, and what they would have wanted. We could not let their deaths go unavenged.

By the blood of our holy martyrs, we swear that with the help of God, who is certainly on our side, and Justice, the right-hand of God, we will continue the struggle against the enemy until they agree to live with us on our terms - the terms of justice. Then we will have peace

Signed,

The Self-Righteous ones for a Just and Lasting Peace
****
Try what it says, and you will begin to get the idea.

You may not be convinced, but at least you will begin to understand why not every Zionist thinks as you do, not to mention non-Zionists.

Shalom,
Ami Isseroff

[D.Ekon]

Excellent work by Christiane Amanpour! More than anything else this documentary reveals a deep human search for God and a quest for what is the truth. There appears to be a veil over the faces of everyone including Christiane that makes everyone unsure of an answer to the deep spiritual questions that drives all three religious groups. I have thought a lot about this mystery. The Jews expect a messiah to come and remove this veil so they can see the truth. The Christian say the messiah has come and is removing this veil and is showing us the truth. The Moslems say there is no veil. We can see the truth clearly.

However, the Moslems have the witness and account of only one prophet to believe while the Jews and Christians have the account of several prophets down the history lane that kept account of these things. Also it appears to me that the Moslem holy book mentions some of the notable Jewish prophets and the message they conveyed but there is no mention of the prophet that inspired Islam in both the Jewish and Christian holy books.

In life the witness of three is often referred to as stronger than the witness of one person. I wonder whether this is also true in this case. Between the Jews and the Christians though the witnesses of the prophets appear somewhat consistent about what this messiah would do. The Jews hold to the literal text and see every fulfillment of prophecy by these prophets as very physical but the Christian read a lot more means into every word. Jews tend to focus on a given time that spans from Abraham to somewhere around the prophet Daniel while Christians tend to be a little broader by examining also the events during the time of Jesus and Paul the converted legal prosecutor.

By examining these events the Christians say it sums up the prophecies and brings greater light into these secret and mysterious things. The Jews agree that a final piece of the puzzle is required to sum up the mysteries and bring understanding to the messages of the prophets but disagree strongly about examining the events surrounding the person known as Jesus Christ rather they prefer to look beyond for another prophet.

The Moslems say to the Jews beyond Jesus there is no other prophet but Mohammad, look no further. While the Jews question the fact that no other prophet they know has spoken about or mentioned the name Mohammad. They also question the fact that the Message of Mohammad does not align with the rest of the prophets they know.

I find all these very interesting. I think Christiane’s documentary, God’s Warriors, helps me see how far every religious camp is willing to go in defense of things they hold so dear to their hearts. However, the issue I find more fascinating, controversial and worthy of far more examination and attention is the person of Jesus Christ. Everything about these three great religions appears to somewhat revolve round this single individual.